Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing

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Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing

Roy Jones Jr. and Location of Foxwoods Resort Casino

After multiple disputes over the location of the Casino with Mac Dreamstate. I provided multiple sources while he provided none and he continued to attempt to argue the facts. So with this talk page I'm going to provide every source I have that states the Foxwoods Resort Casino is located in Mashantucket, CT and Not Ledyard, CT JMichael22 (talk) 03:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Foxwoods Resort Casino Facebook Page

Official Foxwoods Resort Website Casino Contact Information

BoxRec Locations: Foxwoods Resort Casino

UFC visits Foxwoods

Trip Advisor Foxwoods Resort Casino Information

UFC Fight Night Mashantucket

It seems like Mashantucket, CT isn't an official town or subdivision. Fpwlada (talk) 15:22, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Ledyard, CT official site, showing Mashantucket as an attraction within the city; I repeat, Mashantucket being an area within the city of Ledyard, reservation or otherwise.

"Ledyard CT", according to Foxwoods' own site. Mashantucket is listed as well, but that is within the city of Ledyard.

"Ledyard Center, CT"

"Foxwoods Casino, Ledyard, Connecticut"

"Two Trees Inn at Foxwoods Casino, Ledyard, CT"

"Foxwoods Casino, Ledyard, Conn."

"Ledyard USA"

"Ledyard, Connecticut"

"Ledyard, CT"

.. and I could go on. Unless other Project members agree to a change of this part of MOS:BOXING/RECORD, which would affect 100+ articles (having just checked), it's staying as it is. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 15:30, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate Your two trees in sources doesn't state anything about Ledyard, but does say (you can find many ways to relax after a day of touring Mashantucket and the surrounding area). JMichael22 (talk) 17:02, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Mashantucket Pequot Museum and Research Center this source is of the Museum within Mashantucket as some have said Mashantucket isn't a official town it seems one as a official Museum for the town has been established JMichael22 (talk) 17:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Another Source The Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation shows the address within the town of Mashantucket JMichael22 (talk) 17:14, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

It says "Ledyard, CT" in the title of the Two Trees link; not sure why it's different on the live page itself. It might be browser-dependent, but Ctrl+U in Firefox brings up the page source, and there it is. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:16, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Address on the Google Map listed as "Ledyard, CT"

Museum listed under "Connecticut > Ledyard" Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:20, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate the title of the article indeed says Ledyard in it but reading the article it states nothing of Ledyard and only mentions Mashantucket JMichael22 (talk) 17:20, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Google maps over the official site really? JMichael22 (talk) 17:21, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

"Really." Which is exactly what your BoxRec source uses. Museum also listed under "Connecticut > Ledyard". All of this supports my claims that Mashantucket is an area--reservation, whatever--within Ledyard. They are not a town/city by themselves, just a self-governing area. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:23, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Here it is the official confirmed Twitter account of Foxwoods casino they set the location on the confirmed account Foxwoods Twitter Account can't dispute this source it's as official as it gets JMichael22 (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

"Ledyard CT", for a third time, according to Foxwoods' own site. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:26, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

it's says it as a GPS Address but also states Mashantucket as the address JMichael22 (talk) 17:28, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

And Mashantucket is a location within Ledyard, whether they want to make that clear or not. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:28, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Where is a source that states Mashantucket is not a town and is just something in Ledyard? JMichael22 (talk) 17:31, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia's list of towns and cities in New London County Fpwlada (talk) 17:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate Finally I have found a very great and supporting source which comes straight from the horses mouth here is the official video from Foxwoods Resort Casino 25th Anniversary Video Celebrating The Casino Listen very carefully they state Mashantucket not Ledyard JMichael22 (talk) 17:38, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Fourth time, from the horse's website, "Ledyard CT"--that's Foxwoods themselves, no matter how many alternatives you bring up, plus all my third-party sources above. Can you find sources that state Mashantucket to be a town/city by itself, outside of Ledyard? In its current edition, the Mashantucket Pequot Tribe article states "The Mashantucket Pequot Indian Reservation is a land base held in trust by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) in Ledyard, Connecticut." Not my words. Likewise Indian reservation makes no mention of tribal entities being towns/cities--they are land bases within them. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate every source I've provided are official links from creditable Foxwoods Resort accounts and website which all state Mashantucket, CT not Ledyard, CT. looking at a map I see them both separate from each other and even pointed out one of your sources which has Ledyard as the title and Mashantucket in the article stating the surrounding area of Mashantucket not the surrounding area of Ledyard. at this point I don't know what more I can do to support my claim. I even gave a official very strongly creditable video from there website where they state Mashantucket. Now I don't know if a consensus will be reached JMichael22 (talk) 17:50, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

You sound exasperated. I can assure you--you're not the only one. I won't parrot myself by linking to my Foxwoods source for a fifth time, as it should be clear by now the point I'm making. However many times you link to other sources that don't mention Ledyard, I can simply bring up Foxwoods themselves stating it as an address on their own website. No need to go around circles. Also, per WP:PRIMARY, we shouldn't be relying exclusively on their material if third-party sites contradict or supplement what they say, which I've demonstrated in multiple sources above.

From an NY Times article about Ledyard: "Nowadays, the Pequot bingo games are just about the only attraction in town. ... casino on the reservation of the Mashantucket Pequot Indians in Ledyard, Conn." That's as clear an acknowledgement as any that Mashantucket is in Ledyard. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm looking at this map of New London County and Mashantucket is shown clearly within the boundaries of Ledyard. Just because someone says Mashantucket in a video doesnt't mean that's the location we should list. It'd be analogous to listing Midtown Manhattan for MSG.Fpwlada (talk) 18:01, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Per Hartford Courant, "the award-winning Mashantucket Pequot Museum and Research Center in Ledyard". Again, acknowledging that Mashantucket is an area within Ledyard--and I don't mean to downplay the concept of Native American reservations, just to make that clear. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:04, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Likewise NY Times again, "the Mashantucket Pequot Indian Reservation in Ledyard". Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

And according to The Day, "the Mashantucket Pequot Tribe owns several lots in the area", meaning Ledyard. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate I'm going to make this final statement and be done with it. According to the official Twiiter Account, Facebook Page and Website along with the other links ive provided. Are you here by saying all of them which hold Mashantucket, CT as their location wrong? Are you stateing that the official creditable accounts from Foxwoods Resort Casino are placing incorrect locations on their site and accounts? Regardless of anything they are the most credible official sites coming straight from the horses mouth your basing yours on articles I'm gathering official accounts from Foxwoods as well as articles. At this point are you saying the official account are reporting false location information? If so I will no longer discuss the situation and Ledyard will go on as the Foxwoods Casino location JMichael22 (talk) 18:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

As I said above, WP:PRIMARY stipulates that self-published sources--which you are relying heavily upon--are not always credible, and that we should accept third-party material if something is to the contrary. In this case, if Foxwoods themselves want to downplay their location as simply Mashantucket and nothing else, that's their prerogative. However, there are numerous independent sources--as I've listed--which correctly acknowledge them to be in Ledyard, therefore I'm going by WP's guidelines regarding WP:RS and taking into account those third-party sources. That's not to say Foxwoods are lying or deliberately placing incorrect information. I've never said or implied that. It is what it is.

My last sources on the matter, including one by Natives themselves: "Foxwoods Resort Casino on the Mashantucket Pequot Indian Reservation in Ledyard, Connecticut"; "land belonging to the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation in Ledyard". Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate if the land belonging to the Tribe is in Ledyard and it is indeed the tribes land if they choose to refer to their land as Mashantucket, CT and the resort sits on the land they own that means the Foxwoods Resort Casino is indeed in Mashantucket, CT as the government as no control over what native Americans can do with their land it seems as if it is an unofficial town within the United States. They tax them for the Indian gaming laws but have no control over the name of the town they choose to have. That's why they say the Foxwoods Casino is in Mashantucket, CT because no one can legally tell them otherwise JMichael22 (talk) 18:30, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

I've provided six sources stating that they are not a town--they simply own land within the town of Ledyard. They can display their location however they want, but multiple sources say otherwise. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate no source stating they are in Ledyard can be used a creditable as they are their own tribe who are located on their own land according to Native American self-determination refers to the social movements, legislation, and beliefs by which the tribes in the United States exercise self-governance and decision making on issues that affect their own people. they have chosen to name their land Mashantucket, CT according to all the official legitimate straight from the horses mouth sources Twitter, Facebook, Website... Etc. Foxwoods sits on the land Named Mashantucket, CT that is where it is located the land is within Ledyard, CT but Foxwoods technically does not sit on Ledyard, CT land it sits on the tribal land within the unofficial town of Mashantucket, CT JMichael22 (talk) 18:46, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Thought you said you were done on the matter. I've laid out my sources, and pointed out WP:PRIMARY. What more do you want? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:48, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate I said I'm done if you called the official sites wrong. The tribe owns the land which is within the town of Ledyard, CT and they refer to the land as Mashantucket, CT the Foxwoods Resort sits on Mashantucket Tribe owned and controlled land. any news or map source can say whatever they want, but facts are the casino sits on Tribe land located on the Mashantucket, CT named land JMichael22 (talk) 18:56, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

And Mashantucket sits within Ledyard, which is supported by all the sources I listed, including one published by Native Americans. What now? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate And Mashantucket is the name of the tribal land which is supported by every source. So if the casino was part of Ledyard, CT then the tribe wouldn't own the land it stands. and according to Native American self-determination the tribe doesn't answer to the town of Ledyard. The Casino is owned and controlled by the Mashantucket tribe and sits on there owned land which is 100% completely different from it residing in Ledyard, CT JMichael22 (talk) 19:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Alrighty. Next stop, WP:DRN. You in? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate I'm all in, But before we get that party started you might wanna take a look at this Connecticut Indian Land Claims Settlement read very carefully JMichael22 (talk) 19:18, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Pff, "party".. sure.

I read it. What we have is simply a labelling issue. Do you want to file the DRN notice, or me? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:24, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

I'll leave it up to you to as you feel it necessary to bring it to the WP:DRN JMichael22 (talk) 19:27, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Well it is necessary since discussion here has reached a stalemate, having been here all day. I'll get on it and rescind the earlier WP:EWN report, but only if you agree to refrain from making further edits regarding the Mashantucket/Ledyard element in other articles until there's a result at WP:DRN. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:32, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate Absolutely agree I have stopped editing anything referring to the topic of discussion JMichael22 (talk) 19:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

That's been started at WP:DRN now. I've kept everything neutral tone-wise, so all we can do is wait. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:58, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

User:Mac Dreamstate I'm happy we're finally getting this resolved JMichael22 (talk) 20:31, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Foxwoods Resort Casino Location Discussion Part 2

Here is a new source I have found regarding Foxwoods being located in Mashantucket, CT The Fox Tower @ Foxwoods Resort Casino JMichael22 (talk) 00:42, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Another source here 10 Day Weather Forecast for Mashantucket, CT shows the "Unofficial" Town has its own weather forecast from The Weather Channel JMichael22 (talk) 00:48, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Another Source here Mashantucket, CT Population and Races Article JMichael22 (talk) 00:51, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Another source here Lion Fight Announces Lion Fight 15 JMichael22 (talk) 04:49, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Another Source Tanger Outlets One of the locations is at Foxwoods and it provides the address JMichael22 (talk) 05:04, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

You can throw up as many as you want--none of those invalidate my sources stating Ledyard as the location, or that it is acceptable to state Mashantucket as being within Ledyard. This is simply a support/oppose decision to be made, and us two alone cannot agree on it, so what we'll do next is try to form a consensus with other editors on the Project. I will contact as many active Project members as I can, using a neutrally-worded talk message. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:42, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Definitive location of Foxwoods in record tables

Should the location of Foxwoods Resort Casino be changed to Mashantucket, Connecticut; or remain as Ledyard, Connecticut?

Based on the above sets of discussion and multitude of sources provided by User:JMichael22 and myself, it can be considered acceptable to list the location of Foxwoods both ways, according to mainstream media. If going by the sources, neither location is wrong; therefore this is simply a labelling issue that needs a multi-editor consensus. Please read both viewpoints carefully, as well as the sources.

Before posting your messages of Support change or Oppose change, consider whether or not it is warranted that Foxwoods should be an exception from the standard format of "[city/town], [state]" for U.S. locations, per the current edition of MOS:BOXING/RECORD. If the location is changed to Mashantucket, this will need to be reflected in the MOS, and will affect about 120 articles. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:13, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

• I think this should be about the geographical location and the name of the recognized town it's in, rather than how it's reported, as some sources are often a bit lazy about getting these things right. Google Maps shows Mashantucket as part of Ledyard, rather than being recognized as a town in its own right. My knowledge of American geography is insufficient for me to offer much more insight. --Michig (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• Go with Ledyard, as that's the town. GoodDay (talk) 21:00, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• Ledyard per multiple reliable WP:PRIMARY sources mentioned in the discussion. 80.235.147.186 (talk) 21:37, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• Ledyard is what I would prefer. Mahussain06 (talk) 07:47, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
• Mashantucket It shouldn't be based on what you "Prefer" it should be based on where the true location is I provided my sources and I'm basing I'm decision on the official Foxwoods Casino website which states the Address JMichael22 (talk) 19:59, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
• Ledyard per primary and secondary sources which deem Foxwoods to be in the town, and Mashantucket as an area within the town. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:03, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I need to post both these sources here Foxwoods Commercial Foxwoods Commercial 2 Foxwoods Commercial 3 three legitimate commercials from the official Foxwoods Resort stating three live shows at the Casino Located in Mashantucket, CT at this point if people can argue with these even more credible sources then people need to study the state of CT and the Mashantucket tribe to learn Mashantucket is its own town JMichael22 (talk) 21:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Comiconn 2018 Mashantucket, CT another source to show Mashantucket is separate from Ledyard if the casino was in Ledyard why wouldn't they promote it in Ledyard? why are all of these sources promoting it in Mashantucket? JMichael22 (talk) 21:22, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

OK, seriously--how many times do I have to repeat myself? I've provided plenty of sources (including from the casino themselves) stating that Ledyard can be considered acceptable for the location of Foxwoods, and you've so far had no support amongst the Project to change it to Mashantucket. This is looking like WP:DEADHORSE material. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:25, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

I will post these sources and then I'm done--I will not post a single response to you unless other editors come forward to support the change. Then, after maybe a week, it will be clear as to whether there is or is not a consensus to change it:

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods casino in Ledyard".

"Foxwoods Resort Casino in Ledyard"

"Foxwoods Resort Casino in Ledyard"

.....and thousands more from simple Google searches. Right, I'm out. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:41, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

• Comment. People here should read New England town to understand why the town is not necessarily the proper location. Also, what's the official USPS mailing address? That seems to be something no one has actually supplied yet, and might be useful. I have no dog in this fight, so I have no firm opinion, but I felt like an understanding of local government divisions in the area might be benificial to the discussion. oknazevad (talk) 23:56, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

For consistency, the Location field in MOS:BOXING/RECORD has long used city/town/municipality/commune as the first level after venue, not areas within them, because a wikitable does not need to be a travel brochure or geography lesson--brevity works. So in the case of Connecticut, Ledyard as a town should suffice, per the abovementioned New England town article.

Therefore, going by the sources below it is perfectly acceptable and accurate to use Ledyard, being that it is the town in which Foxwoods is situated. Furthermore, it is a fact that Mashantucket, and thereby Foxwoods, is considered geographically and politically part of and not just within the town of Ledyard:

• "Foxwoods Resort Casino in the northeastern section of town" - Ledyard official website
• "Foxwoods in the town of Ledyard"
• "Foxwoods Resort Casino opened in the sleepy town of Ledyard"
• "Foxwoods Casino in Ledyard"
• "The Mashantucket Pequot Indian Reservation Archeological District is located in the town of Ledyard"
• "[...] members of the reservation were residents of the city" - Connecticut official website
• "[...] the Mashantucket, or Western Pequots, have reservation land within the town of Ledyard"
• "[...] a resident of the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation (MPTN) reservation is a bona fide permanent resident of the Town of Ledyard" - Connecticut official website

I must emphasise that the point of the MOS is not to diminish the existence of Mashantucket, its native sovereignty, or the various issues they've had with Ledyard and Connecticut. It is not the task of this Project to deal with politics--this is about labelling for a wikitable. Likewise if Foxwoods and Mashantucket choose not to publicise much, or any, connection to Ledyard (since they have not exactly seen eye-to-eye over time), that does not invalidate a good number of third-party sources stating otherwise. This is basic stuff covered in WP:PRIMARY.

Nonetheless, it's been a week, and after a lot of bludgeoning as well as a fruitless WP:DRN discussion, there has been no consensus by the Project to change this element of the MOS. It will stay as it is, and I will revert Roy Jones Jr.'s record to how it was before this came up. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 02:35, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Boxing

Discussion at Talk:Pat O'Keefe#Request edit on 5 January 2018

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Pat O'Keefe#Request edit on 5 January 2018. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:35, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

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Susi Kentikian nominated for featured article review

I have nominated Susi Kentikian for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Lizard (talk) 17:55, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

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Minor tweak to Titles in boxing

At MOS:BOXING/TITLES, for the "Stripped" parameter after the date range, Stripped (title lost on the scales) is now simply Stripped. The reason for this is because, within the cramped table, we already don't state the myriad other reasons a boxer may have been stripped (inactivity, sanctioning bodies being shady, etc.) Brevity is key. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

• I don't know of you are asking us or telling us, but if you are asking you have my support - brevity is key. RonSigPi (talk) 22:14, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

More like a small update, so that editors won't be confused and wonder when/why it started, and to encourage them to do the same at other articles they see fit. I'll try and do the same for any other changes along the way. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:33, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

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Boxing article editors are requested to take a look at Talk:Pat O'Keeffe#Request edit on 1 March 2018

I am trying to expand this boxing stub, i have a COI with the subject. any help would be greatly appreciated. This isn't my sole reason for being on Wikipedia, I am also in the middle of producing/editing various boxing related articles. Kind regards, Okeeffemarc (talk) 21:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

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Locations of Hard Rock casinos

In fight records, please go ahead and change Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Hollywood to Hard Rock Live, and Hard Rock Hotel and Casino (Las Vegas) to The Joint, as those are the arenas in which boxing takes place. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:12, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good. Why not? They have their own articles anyway. --Mahussain06 (talk) 03:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

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Names of weight classes, revisited

Our current format of weight classes was agreed upon via consensus in November 2015, and put into practice at MOS:BOXING/WEIGHT. I would say it's worked OK since then, at least insofar as eliminating the hideous use of proper nouns ("Light Heavyweight") and determining when hyphens are used (US/"light heavyweight"; UK/"light-heavyweight"), but one thing with which I've never been truly happy are the varying names as it relates to sanctioning bodies.

The system we currently have in place gets especially irksome when a boxer, having first won (e.g.) the WBC "super lightweight" title, later unifies and wins the WBO "junior welterweight" title. I know I'm not the only who finds it silly to then have to retroactively change it to "light welterweight". Picking hairs. It is also not feasible to favour either "super lightweight" or "junior welterweight", because WP:COMMONNAME falls flat: "super lightweight" is used by the WBA, WBC, and BoxRec; "junior welterweight" is used by the IBF, WBO, and The Ring.

After nearly three years and a shitload of having to explain things to confused new editors, I propose we ditch this clunky element of MOS:BOXING and use WP's own neutral article titles--especially light welterweight and light middleweight--and apply them to the entirety of all professional boxing articles, except for the champions lists (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, The Ring, etc.)

How it would look in practice: no longer would we refer to any WBO cruiserweight champion as a "junior heavyweight" champion--screw it, gone. Likewise no more "junior lightweight" for Vasyl Lomachenko (he's a super featherweight; easy), or "junior welterweight" for Mikey Garcia (he's a light welterweight; easy).

Let's have some Support or Oppose below. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:34, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

• Comment. When we're discussing an individual title, we should use the actual name of the title used by the sanctioning body. Happy to go with standardised naming outside of that. --Michig (talk) 21:00, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'd like to get away from. In theory, a lead with "[Professional boxer] has held the WBC super lightweight title" works in isolation, but as soon as a differently-named title enters the picture, the need to change it to "[Professional boxer] has held the WBC and WBO light welterweight titles" becomes very cumbersome. I've disliked doing that since the beginning, and I'm sure others have too. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:23, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Support. Thank you for bringing this up. Having Oleksandr Usyk labelled as WBO junior heavyweight is so lame. I'm all for this. Don't like 'junior' anywhere. Mahussain06 (talk) 11:22, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

That's the name of the WBO title. If you don't like it, take it up with the WBO. --Michig (talk) 11:43, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

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